In the aftermath of the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol that attempted to block congressional certification of the winner of the 2020 presidential election, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have arrested more than 150 Pro-Trump rioters who participated in the siege, and opened over 400 case files. Michael Sherwin, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, is looking at “significant felony cases” tied to sedition and conspiracy. The insurrectionists say they were driven to storm the Capitol by President Trump’s claim that his election victory was stolen by fraud, a provable lie. Yet, the baseless claim had been validated by 146 Republican legislators.
While Trump supporters swarmed the Capitol’s halls and congressional offices looking for legislators to hold hostage or kill, many more members of pro-Trump militia groups were watching the attack unfold on their TV sets at home, unsure whether or not this was the opening battle of a new American civil war. After 25,000 National Guards troops were deployed to protect the Capitol in advance of Joe Biden’s inauguration, predicted mass protests by armed right-wing groups in Washington and at other state Capitols didn’t materialize.
Between The Lines’ Scott Harris spoke with journalist Mike Giglio, who’s reported from war zones in Syria, Iraq and Ukraine and is author of the book, “Shatter the Nations: ISIS and the War for the Caliphate.” In a series of recent articles, Giglio has profiled members of armed pro-Trump militia groups in an effort to better understand their motivation, mindset and future intentions. Here, Giglio recounts some of the conversations he’s had with militia group members about their reactions to the Capitol attack, and what they believe their role to be in our divided nation in the post-Trump era.
MIKE GIGLIO: After what happened at the Capitol, the entire country’s all of a sudden focused on these groups and people who were part of them. Law enforcement is hyper-focused. Media’s hyper-focused. I think regular Americans are hyper-focused on them. And so I really just felt compelled — like I want to go back out and just meet people face to face and in quiet places. I don’t want to go to a protest and have someone sound off.
You know, I wanted to talk with people when they have their guard down a little bit. And also I wanted to reconnect with people that I’ve met before, so that there was some level of trust there already. And just ask them, what was their own reaction to what happened? And what I think is positive, most of them thought that would happen at the Capitol was a mistake. That the violence, at least was a mistake. And instead of doing what you might expect, you know, inflaming the situation or talking tough, which is what they are kind of famous for doing, threatening things. They actually were the opposite. The people I spoke to, at least. And it’s not possible to get a sampling of these groups because there are hundreds of them. So I’m speaking with a very limited subset of people. But the people I spoke to, they were hoping that other groups were feeling the same way. So, it was a mood, more of de-escalation.
SCOTT HARRIS: There was an interesting investigation that resulted in the arrest of a bunch of militia guys in Michigan where they had plans to kidnap the governor of Michigan hold her hostage. There was some discussion of assassinating her. It almost seemed like a blueprint for what later on occurred or what could have occurred at the U.S. Capitol. Did you have much discussion about the militia groups and what they were planning to do or alleged to be planning to do in Michigan and how that related to their own view of their mission and whether they departed from that kind of action or had a completely different view of what their purpose was?
MIKE GIGLIO: I think the lesson from both of those events is just how important it is what the Republican media and political establishment is saying and how that’s interpreted by militia type groups. So after the date that the FBI made those arrests in Michigan, the alleged plot to kidnap the governor, I called someone in Michigan who knows some of the people who were arrested and who has been in the militia movement in Michigan for a very long time. And asked him, “Hey, like what’s going on? Do you know anything about this?” And he said, “I know two of the guys who were arrested, I wouldn’t have expected that they would do something like this. And obviously that’s a bad idea.”
But, and this is crucial, he said something to the effect of the governor “has been acting tyrannical. We have been charged with upholding the laws of the state because she won’t. And therefore, it is within our rights to act as a law enforcement body and basically arrest her.” So if they were doing that, they were doing the right thing. That’s sort of what happened with the conversation.
If you look at what Republicans in Michigan have been saying, since it started the pandemic, it’s eerily close to that. They’re saying, “She’s a tyrant, she’s tyrannical. And the people need to take things into their own hands.” Without that sort of validation, like cover from the top, I’m not sure how much these groups would be willing to carry out these more audacious acts, because there’s a certain level where they feel enabled and also duty bound. So, if you believe that the Republican party are patriotic and acting in the best interest of the country and they have access to real information and all that, and they’re calling people tyrannical, really raises the question of “What you should do about it?”
And it was the same thing with the Capitol. So, the people who actually planned to take lawmakers — in their head, they’re not saying they’re going to kidnap them. They’re saying, “We’re going to take them and do a citizens’ arrest” similar to what (happened in) Michigan.” They are getting that idea from Trump, but also from the members of the Republican establishment who are backing his claims that the election was stolen and they feel like they need to help to uphold the laws of the nation and that they have the support of Trump and Republicans who have been egging them on this.
And it is a very new element. This has never happened before. You have not had even during the tea party, even the entire eight years of Obama, you never had Republicans speaking this expressly in language that could inspire militia groups to take matters into their own hands and take potentially violent action like that.
SCOTT HARRIS: Mike, do you think the Republicans are aware of the effect they’re having, if not before the Capitol insurrection and before the Michigan kidnapping plot — you would think they would know the impact they’re having by now, right?
MIKE GIGLIO: No, I don’t think they do. I think that they are a picture of decadence in that they do not understand the real world implications of what they are doing.
For more information, visit Mike Giglio’s website at mikegiglio.com.
